Here is a list of lift projects with cost per acre..
Saturday, January 23, 2010
Friday, January 8, 2010
Telangana State - Losing Andhra costs TG too.
Response from facebook member..
FB> Firstly, let me answer your statement about lift irrigation. This has been a completely brain washed idea from the Andhras that has been fed to the ignorant Telanganites.
FB> - Pochampad project is not a lift irrigation project. It has been silted, it is natural flood irrigation project. IF we desilt this, it can irrigate a lot of lands....
MM> I checked out Google Maps. Beautiful holiday spot!
MM> Lots of work has happened on this project in last 10 years. A State Government Project has increased it to 10 Lakh.
MM> Note to self: Silting reduces capacity of tanks by 1-5 % per year.
MM> A Telangana.org (TDF) preso page 12. says Sriramsagar project since last 10 years is not supplying more than 5 lakh acres land in Karimnagar and Warangal districts. So we have had a 100% growth?
MM> Perhaps even more interesting, this preso says certain projects are not viable
MM> Some evidence that local maintenance comittess failed to look after original pilot project canals. Research needed before we blame AP Govt.
- Nagarjuna Sagar project is not a lift irrigation project. It has deliberately been built 20 miles downstream and the waters have been diverted to Seema/Andhra areas
- Ichampalli never got started. Not a lift irrigation project.
MM> Can't get info. So defering discussion on this for now..
MM> info Proposed site 12 km from intersection of Pranhita and Godavari rivers. 363 Crore Project
- Pranahita/Devadula never got started. Not a lift irrigation project
MM> It is lift and boy is it expensive (23billion INR per year) . Its worth INR 38500 Crore to irrigate 16.4 Laksh. http://www.thehindu.com/2009/10/16/stories/2009101659520600.htm, and power requirements are 3000 MW
MM> Almost 2.34 Lakhs per acre. or 20 years average income for one person (20,000 p.a)! Farming is a risky business with droughts and as links above attest..the future of the KGBasin is grave. Should we invest in Agriculture instead of buying land from farmers and retrain them for export focused industries or for western economies so that they can emigrate.
MM> Its interesting where this project originates from:
.
- Sri Ram Sagar project - Only first phase was finished. Not a lift irrigation project.
MM> i don't have time to research this.
Secondly, even if there were lift irrigation projects, some one said that "Humankind has capabilities to find technological solutions to seemingly intractable problems."
MM> Yes.. we are abusing out land. There are good options available like Solar power for those lift projects or natural sequence farming practices.
Blame my ignorance, please direct me to one web site that did an analysis on the lift irrigation costs in Telangana. Of course I would be wanting to see a reliable source (not a blog). Has there been a survey by the irrigation engineers/civil engineers that this is not viable?
MM> I absolutely agree. 38,000 Crores is a big investment in training and development. lets do that instead of wasting money.
MM> A link for polavaram vs Lift option (but i suspect there won't be lifting any?).
So instead of providing other avenues for the farmers, they decide that it would be okay to just let the lands dry out completely. Where is the justice in that? Was there an effort to retrain the farmers, give them new employment, create industries in those regions?
MM> Agreed
So most of the men left to Muscat, Oman, Saudi to feed their families. Those countries confiscate their passports and the men become slaves there.
MM> We have a large diaspora that left too due to the socialist policies of nehru and congress party. Even today large tracts of AP and Telangana have no youngsters. All are overseas.
Other than the politicians from AS saying that Lift Irrigation is not viable, I have not seen any supporting evidence.
MM> I think like all general statements this is incorrect.
Wouldn't it be better to have one or two crops than having none at all?
MM > What if you can re-use existing irrigation for this one extra crop? Dosent this make better business sense as resource utilisation is increased? In theory the govt should put this extra tax benefit into low developed areas..howeever due to governance issues its refusing to do so...that is why Telangana needs to get more power via use of the upper house so that they can benefit from the taxes from Andra also, now is not the time to permanently lose the benefits the andra delta! Its time to negotiate a better deal for TG..not split AP! http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfqcqktn_3gdr7kmgn
Secondly, the numbers speak for themselves. The irrigable lands that were there 50 years ago have been cut into half. Some of it can be blamed on ecological conditions, the others can be blamed on diversion of the waters. You can see check these numbers on the GOVT websites.
MM> This http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19_5.html disputes that TG has lost irrigation.
MM> If TG is formed, there is no water from Krishna, so you have 700 TMC in Godavari available to AP..So TG will need to be formed to fight for thie 700 TMC.. However as Pranahita is the only major project TG can have..and its unviable..what is TRS going to do?
Coming back to your opinion, I agree completely. But the harsh reality is that the Telangana farmers were left to commit suicides and the Govt did nothing.
MM> I agree. Governement delivery of social services is pathetic. This is evident in all states that had suicides. That is why empowerment of local district government is required as per Lok Satta platform. Only locals can manage themselves better. This can be achieved in any state.
I will answer your other two questions in a few minutes.
@Mahmut: On your point one, I have an analogy. THere was a guy who prayed to God every day and asked him to let him win the Jackpot. This went on and on for a few years. God got frustrated and asked the guy, "You fool, you have not even bought a lottery ticket all these years. How can I let you win a jackpot?"
MM> There is an assumption of a jackpot that i would like to question. However it is the telangana peoples choice if they get a new state (purchase a lotto ticket as per your analogy) or get a better deal within existing state.
When Telangana gets formed, that's when we will know if Telangana can become a Singapore or if it become a failed state. Kerala is small, 100% literacy. Punjab is small, Farming is mega success there. Gujarat is not that big, full of entrepreneurs. Of course I am being idealistic.
MM> Hyderabad is the best option for "singapore". You don't need TG to see that. We are already there. What we need is stability. In fact we cannot compete with City states without our own city states. There is anvery powerful argument to make a city state (Mumbai, Hyderabad) so that they can become like Hong Kong or Singapore..who built enormouse economic engine by virtue of teh fact that they were small and unhibited by rural politics..and in the process benefit the surrounding regions immensely.
But I think the faster we get away from the politically, financially stronger AS leaders the better is. When there is a big tree, a small sapling covers it with it's shade....
MM> Small states are good., but ultimately the key reason for the TG state is irrigation.
I can't guarantee that the leaders in Telangana (at least for the first five years) are going to be good, but people are becoming more media savvy, and the regional boards you mentioned may come in handy for the local development. This is one thing that NTR did good. Develop the local govts at the Mandals etc.
MM> Hope so. But i suggest we have an elected upper house and other checks against a rampantly corrupt executive.
My point was that when we didn't have one leader that was not under the shadow of AS leaders, how could they have governed or lobbied for the rights of Telangana people.
MM> The leader is important in allocations, however the leader needs to listen to his constituencies..and any leader who ignore TG MP/MLA's who are 40% would have paid a big price. It suggests the real reasons for TG backwardness are more complex than what we have been led to believe
I just want to add that there were several Lift irrigation projects that were considered minor projects. None of them ever got implemented. But neither did the ones that are natural flood flow projects.
MM> I haven't had time to look into this below...but i leave them in this post. I support small lift irrigation projects which are more ecnoomical than Pranahita.
Flood flow projects:
1) J. Chokka Rao Project (Phase I and II) - Not a lift irrigation project
2)Sriram Sagar Project (Phase II) and the flood canal... See More
3) Alimineti Madhava Reddy Project
4) Dummugudem project
5) Lendi Project
6) Suddavagu, Peddavagu, Palemvagu, Gollavagu, Ralivagu, Mathadivagu, Modikuntavagu and Gundlavagu projects
7) Komuram Bheem Project
8) Kinnerasani Project
9) Ichampally Project
10) Desilting of Pochampadu
11) Rectifying the Nagarjuna Sagar
Lift Irrigation Projects:
1)Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project,
2)Kalwakurthy Lift Irrigation Project
3)Rajiv Lift Irrigation Projects
4) Alisagar Lift Irrigation Project
5) Gutpa Lift Irrigation Project
6) Bhima Lift Irrigation project
7) Sripada Rao Lift Irrigation project
8) Kalwakurthi Lift Irrigation Project
9) Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project
10) Koilsagar Lift Irrigation Scheme
People talk about the lift irrigation projects so much fooling every one in Telangana that the projects are not viable.
FB> Firstly, let me answer your statement about lift irrigation. This has been a completely brain washed idea from the Andhras that has been fed to the ignorant Telanganites.
FB> - Pochampad project is not a lift irrigation project. It has been silted, it is natural flood irrigation project. IF we desilt this, it can irrigate a lot of lands....
MM> I checked out Google Maps. Beautiful holiday spot!
MM> Lots of work has happened on this project in last 10 years. A State Government Project has increased it to 10 Lakh.
MM> Note to self: Silting reduces capacity of tanks by 1-5 % per year.
MM> A Telangana.org (TDF) preso page 12. says Sriramsagar project since last 10 years is not supplying more than 5 lakh acres land in Karimnagar and Warangal districts. So we have had a 100% growth?
MM> Perhaps even more interesting, this preso says certain projects are not viable
MM> Some evidence that local maintenance comittess failed to look after original pilot project canals. Research needed before we blame AP Govt.
- Nagarjuna Sagar project is not a lift irrigation project. It has deliberately been built 20 miles downstream and the waters have been diverted to Seema/Andhra areas
MM> 6 Lakh acres in Telangana irrigated by this project..
MM> Note to self: so how much more could have been irrigated had it been 20 miles into Telangana (downstream)?
MM> A Telangana.org (TDF) preso page 13 "The govt. by not constructing the sanctioned projects such as SLBC and Tail pond dam under Nagarjunasagar appears to be intentionally depriving Telangana farmers of water through gravity and knocking away these waters to Andhra area by gravity". The below link , page 23 conflicts with this:
MM> SLBC and Tail Pond are 2 projects that are not-lift based, but there is no water left in LowerKrishna Basin (TG+AS). Its been fully allocated and there has been a massive drop in water coming to delta region. TG or no TG..nothing will be happening in K Basin.
- Ichampalli never got started. Not a lift irrigation project.
MM> Can't get info. So defering discussion on this for now..
MM> info Proposed site 12 km from intersection of Pranhita and Godavari rivers. 363 Crore Project
- Pranahita/Devadula never got started. Not a lift irrigation project
MM> It is lift and boy is it expensive (23billion INR per year) . Its worth INR 38500 Crore to irrigate 16.4 Laksh. http://www.thehindu.com/2009/10/16/stories/2009101659520600.htm, and power requirements are 3000 MW
MM> Almost 2.34 Lakhs per acre. or 20 years average income for one person (20,000 p.a)! Farming is a risky business with droughts and as links above attest..the future of the KGBasin is grave. Should we invest in Agriculture instead of buying land from farmers and retrain them for export focused industries or for western economies so that they can emigrate.
MM> Its interesting where this project originates from:
.
- Sri Ram Sagar project - Only first phase was finished. Not a lift irrigation project.
MM> i don't have time to research this.
Secondly, even if there were lift irrigation projects, some one said that "Humankind has capabilities to find technological solutions to seemingly intractable problems."
MM> Yes.. we are abusing out land. There are good options available like Solar power for those lift projects or natural sequence farming practices.
Blame my ignorance, please direct me to one web site that did an analysis on the lift irrigation costs in Telangana. Of course I would be wanting to see a reliable source (not a blog). Has there been a survey by the irrigation engineers/civil engineers that this is not viable?
MM> I absolutely agree. 38,000 Crores is a big investment in training and development. lets do that instead of wasting money.
MM> A link for polavaram vs Lift option (but i suspect there won't be lifting any?).
So instead of providing other avenues for the farmers, they decide that it would be okay to just let the lands dry out completely. Where is the justice in that? Was there an effort to retrain the farmers, give them new employment, create industries in those regions?
MM> Agreed
So most of the men left to Muscat, Oman, Saudi to feed their families. Those countries confiscate their passports and the men become slaves there.
MM> We have a large diaspora that left too due to the socialist policies of nehru and congress party. Even today large tracts of AP and Telangana have no youngsters. All are overseas.
Other than the politicians from AS saying that Lift Irrigation is not viable, I have not seen any supporting evidence.
MM> I think like all general statements this is incorrect.
Wouldn't it be better to have one or two crops than having none at all?
MM > What if you can re-use existing irrigation for this one extra crop? Dosent this make better business sense as resource utilisation is increased? In theory the govt should put this extra tax benefit into low developed areas..howeever due to governance issues its refusing to do so...that is why Telangana needs to get more power via use of the upper house so that they can benefit from the taxes from Andra also, now is not the time to permanently lose the benefits the andra delta! Its time to negotiate a better deal for TG..not split AP! http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfqcqktn_3gdr7kmgn
Secondly, the numbers speak for themselves. The irrigable lands that were there 50 years ago have been cut into half. Some of it can be blamed on ecological conditions, the others can be blamed on diversion of the waters. You can see check these numbers on the GOVT websites.
MM> This http://www.myteluguroots.com/chapter_19_5.html disputes that TG has lost irrigation.
MM> If TG is formed, there is no water from Krishna, so you have 700 TMC in Godavari available to AP..So TG will need to be formed to fight for thie 700 TMC.. However as Pranahita is the only major project TG can have..and its unviable..what is TRS going to do?
Coming back to your opinion, I agree completely. But the harsh reality is that the Telangana farmers were left to commit suicides and the Govt did nothing.
MM> I agree. Governement delivery of social services is pathetic. This is evident in all states that had suicides. That is why empowerment of local district government is required as per Lok Satta platform. Only locals can manage themselves better. This can be achieved in any state.
I will answer your other two questions in a few minutes.
@Mahmut: On your point one, I have an analogy. THere was a guy who prayed to God every day and asked him to let him win the Jackpot. This went on and on for a few years. God got frustrated and asked the guy, "You fool, you have not even bought a lottery ticket all these years. How can I let you win a jackpot?"
MM> There is an assumption of a jackpot that i would like to question. However it is the telangana peoples choice if they get a new state (purchase a lotto ticket as per your analogy) or get a better deal within existing state.
When Telangana gets formed, that's when we will know if Telangana can become a Singapore or if it become a failed state. Kerala is small, 100% literacy. Punjab is small, Farming is mega success there. Gujarat is not that big, full of entrepreneurs. Of course I am being idealistic.
MM> Hyderabad is the best option for "singapore". You don't need TG to see that. We are already there. What we need is stability. In fact we cannot compete with City states without our own city states. There is anvery powerful argument to make a city state (Mumbai, Hyderabad) so that they can become like Hong Kong or Singapore..who built enormouse economic engine by virtue of teh fact that they were small and unhibited by rural politics..and in the process benefit the surrounding regions immensely.
But I think the faster we get away from the politically, financially stronger AS leaders the better is. When there is a big tree, a small sapling covers it with it's shade....
MM> Small states are good., but ultimately the key reason for the TG state is irrigation.
I can't guarantee that the leaders in Telangana (at least for the first five years) are going to be good, but people are becoming more media savvy, and the regional boards you mentioned may come in handy for the local development. This is one thing that NTR did good. Develop the local govts at the Mandals etc.
MM> Hope so. But i suggest we have an elected upper house and other checks against a rampantly corrupt executive.
My point was that when we didn't have one leader that was not under the shadow of AS leaders, how could they have governed or lobbied for the rights of Telangana people.
MM> The leader is important in allocations, however the leader needs to listen to his constituencies..and any leader who ignore TG MP/MLA's who are 40% would have paid a big price. It suggests the real reasons for TG backwardness are more complex than what we have been led to believe
I just want to add that there were several Lift irrigation projects that were considered minor projects. None of them ever got implemented. But neither did the ones that are natural flood flow projects.
MM> I haven't had time to look into this below...but i leave them in this post. I support small lift irrigation projects which are more ecnoomical than Pranahita.
Flood flow projects:
1) J. Chokka Rao Project (Phase I and II) - Not a lift irrigation project
2)Sriram Sagar Project (Phase II) and the flood canal... See More
3) Alimineti Madhava Reddy Project
4) Dummugudem project
5) Lendi Project
6) Suddavagu, Peddavagu, Palemvagu, Gollavagu, Ralivagu, Mathadivagu, Modikuntavagu and Gundlavagu projects
7) Komuram Bheem Project
8) Kinnerasani Project
9) Ichampally Project
10) Desilting of Pochampadu
11) Rectifying the Nagarjuna Sagar
Lift Irrigation Projects:
1)Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project,
2)Kalwakurthy Lift Irrigation Project
3)Rajiv Lift Irrigation Projects
4) Alisagar Lift Irrigation Project
5) Gutpa Lift Irrigation Project
6) Bhima Lift Irrigation project
7) Sripada Rao Lift Irrigation project
8) Kalwakurthi Lift Irrigation Project
9) Nettempadu Lift Irrigation Project
10) Koilsagar Lift Irrigation Scheme
People talk about the lift irrigation projects so much fooling every one in Telangana that the projects are not viable.
Saturday, January 2, 2010
Andhra - Telanagan Suicides. Pity the dirty politics
Politicians on all sides will always claim more support than they actually have..
So co-opting the dead is now the standard behaviour for some unscrupulous politicians
So co-opting the dead is now the standard behaviour for some unscrupulous politicians
Suicide rate is 10.6 per 100k people in India, AP with 800 Lakhs we sadly have had 8000 Suicides in 12 months! All
Its a very sad to see we care about people who suicide only if a politician wants to score a point. People with depression and mental health issues have a treatable disease. They should be helped with medication, counseling or both.
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